I made that statement directed at people who carry that belief, not at people who do not.
Your girlfriend along with millions of others have that right. It is a right. To protect that right she, along with the millions of others need to put it in writing.
I really understand where people are coming from in regards to her husband. People worldwide are split down the middle regarding his motives. My concern with her husband along with the doctors and the lawyers involved is....
I have had to deal with several doctors. As a mother of a child with a disability (which I am Not comparing my daughter with Terri) I know for a fact that right up until this day qualified Doctors have said the most stupid things regarding people with disabilities of All kinds. 2 years ago doctors (not one doctor plural) told my niece that since my daughter had down syndrome her unborn child was likely to have down syndrome. Any qualified doctor (one who has been to medical school) would know that that is so untrue. But this scared the living hell out of her. Doctors continue to suggest to parents to put their cognitively and physically impaired children in institutions rather then help them see what a loving environment can do for these kids. Point is: Doctors do these things every day, despite the vast amounts of information that will say contrary. Doctors do not know everything and many times they think they are God. I have worked with an equal amount of doctors who are the exact opposite. Same thing with lawyers, some you can trust some you can't. I am seriously all for a persons right to die they way they want. I live in MI where Kevorkian was imprisioned and still want to beat the living hell out of the Oakland County prosecutor who snagged him. People should have that right, I agree.
Now with the husband. Doogie... as much as I really want to agree, I have seen firsthand where one day your best friend is getting a divorce and it's the biggest shock in the world. Everything seemed perfect. Everything. Not one person except for Terri and her husband really know if their marriage was perfect. I'd like to honestly believe that yes, they had a great marriage. Everything points to it. But, that might not be the case. Who is there to contest it? Friends? Well, sometimes and many times, friends only know half the story, or they are unwilling to believe that a person is capapble of something unreal.
I used to trust Doctors. Now.... I am careful who I let care for my kids.
Doogie, I personally didn't think your post was offensive. Your girlfriend made a great point. Most people would not want to live for 15 years in a state like that and they would choose to end it, I believe they should have the right if they have made it clear in a written form. I was addressing a vast number of people (not necessarily those who are posters) who have made comments that since people in vegetative states have nothing to offer to society they are better off dead. I simply think that since she did not have it in writing and she does not appear to be suffering, what is the harm in letting her parents care for her? Several people have said that was her wish and who better to know then her husband. I think it was tickled pink who made a great point about parents making decisions for a person can be a bad choice as well. That's very true! But in this case the parents are making the choice to care for their daughter not let her die. Terri, I'm sure would not want any of this to be happening. But it is. I think as a parent it would be very difficult for me to allow my child to die. Regardless of it meaning the removal of a feeding tube or oxygen. I am looking at this from the perspective of parents who love their children unconditionally and choose to continue to have faith. Her wishes were not in writing, I think it is scary to take someone else's word on such a serious issue. We are not talking about a situation where the person in question has made it clear to all, including family doctors and other members of the family. Had she done so, then the situation would be completely different.
BlackSwan of Memphis
JoinedPosts by BlackSwan of Memphis
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67
Terri Schiavo petition on site
by missy04 ini was reading through the terrisfight.org site and ran across the section "how you can help".
there is a petition to sign on the site to save terri.
here is the link to it for those who want to sign it.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
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67
Terri Schiavo petition on site
by missy04 ini was reading through the terrisfight.org site and ran across the section "how you can help".
there is a petition to sign on the site to save terri.
here is the link to it for those who want to sign it.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
I have a daughter with down syndrome, because of her infant classes she had, I had the pleasant oppurtunity to meet with parents of children who were terminal due to various chromosomal disorders. Many of these children could not do anything other then lie there and let there mothers and fathers take care of them. They would never learn to walk, would never be able to feed themselves...nothing. They were fed by their parents with feeding tubes or something similar. One beautiful little girl has a disorder that left her without pupils to see. Really, these children were completely disabled. Physically and cognitively. Now had I not the oppurtunity to meet these parents and children, I would have thought for years to come... "what quality of life?" and "how sad". It was a friend of mine whose son had a case of cp due to medical negligence that helped me understand what keeps a parent's hope alive. She said that when her son was born and things were going horribly wrong, all she could do was pray and say "God, let my son be born" "I don't care how disabled he is, I will love and take care of him the rest of my life." She was a strong Catholic and her faith, I swear, could have moved mountains. You know, maybe you guys are completely right. Maybe she (Terri)will never be anything in this world, will never have anything to offer to society. I won't disagree with you. But I will say this. If she is not suffering and her parents, out of desperation and love and undying hope, are willing to take on the responsibility of her care, why not? If it gives them hope just to walk in her room and see a shadow of smile and that gives them a small little ray of hope and Terri is not suffering, why not say, sure? This is Michaels wife, should he have the decision? Sure. But it seems to me that he should be able to see that Terri is not a burden to her family. They love her. They have hope. To say she is not adding anything to society...That is where we start walking a very fine line. I respect the right to the opinion. But if that is true... Then why not just take the kids I mentioned at the outset, take them from their parents and starve them to death? After all what will they ever offer to society? If they don't die before they're 18, what could they offer??? Maybe, and hey, this probably sounds dumb, but maybe what they have to offer is to teach the human race not pity, but something greater. Maybe they help complete the larger picture of what we deem is life. Hey we are all entitled to an opinion. I don't completely disagree with what many people are saying. If I were dying of a horrible disease and it made me completely miserable, I want to be able to decide For Myself how to leave. But that isn't the case. We are going by Terri's husband. I'm sure he is a great guy who really loved her. But it seems to me that if Terri is Not suffering and her parents are willing to take care of her, why couldn't he have compassion for the living and let her parents take the responsibility and let everyone move on? The concern lies with her "right" to die. Well, Terri did not put it in writing and if there is one thing I have learned, when it comes to taking the word of another, be careful, because the very people you think you can trust to tell you the truth of the matter is quite possibly the very person who has ulterior motives and is willing to sell your soul to the devil for a penny. peace
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102
Fuming, Angry, seething, seeing RED!!!!!!!!!!
by Gill inmy parents went to the assembly this weekend.
they were telling me about disciplining children... the speaker was saying how all babies are born selfish and demanding for their own needs and not anyone elses.
the jist of the talk being about discipline, and training children ...ie taking them out for a good beating.. well, i don't know if any of you have ever 'just seen red!
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BlackSwan of Memphis
back up and understand what is going on. The Bible does teach that beating a child or slave is appropriate. It also teaches that children are tainted sinners from conception. These are the ingredients for child abuse. In fact the idea that children are enemies of God is necessarily corollary to the doctrine of inherited sin.
Peacefulpete - I think you make a really important point there, that the Organization is treating children as sinners that need the sin knocking out of them. This makes abusers out of people who would normally if they had never been in the cult, into abusers. They actually believe that they are doing the right thing and are 'saving' and 'training' their children. As in the case of MonkeyPrincess who is still upset about being forced into spanking her one year old. Because of the the teachings of Armageddon coming and children needing to sit and be trained there adds desperation to a parents frustration with their little tiny uncooperative child. How can this child not understand that they have to 'take in knowledge of the only true God' right from an early age in order to survive. The taking in of knowlege, or in my opinion, crap from the FDS is essential to survive. Afterall, Armageddon is coming anyday!
The speaker was saying how all babies are born selfish and demanding for their own needs and not anyone elses. The jist of the talk being about discipline, and training children ...ie taking them out for a good beating.
Ok, while the bible does teach that we are born with sin on the other hand?.
A baby crying to be held, a baby crying to be fed or changed or a baby crying out of fear?.That is not selfish. That is a baby with needs that have to be met. By saying that these things are selfish, imo the speaker is blasphemous. In the sense that when God created man and pronounced it good, he being the Almighty had to have created man with the outlook that regardless of whether or not he were to sin, the children he were to bring forth, as babies would need someway of getting their parents attention to have their needs met. Unless God?s unknown plan was for Eve to bear fully grown adults. Selfishness is a sin. If a baby crying to be held by his mother is selfish, then I wonder what the Society has to say about what perfect babies would do. Stand up at a month old and say ?Hey feed me I?m hungry?? Or better yet, pick up a stick of wood sharpen it for hunting, get his own wild turkey and cook and eat it?
What that speaker said is not only cold, it makes little sense in a very practical way. Babies cry to get their needs met. If a 10 year old is screaming and crying and carrying on, and there are no special circumstances, then chances are the kid is spoiled. But a baby cries for a reason. That is their communication.
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ok, door to door question.......
by freedom96 ini am always teasing my wife about having a "country club" upbringing as a witness.. in the hall i grew up in, and those i attended for a few years after turning 18, were pretty hard core.
i tease her about how easy she had it.
which, in my mind was clearly the case, but that is another story.. this case involves going out in service.. in my halls, you went out almost regardless of weather.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
In my experience it was dependent on the car group.
But my most recent experiences, they would stop at donut shops for like an entire hour. Some ones that I know would stop at a sit down restaurant, like a Coney Island, and order a huge breakfast. In fact, since in one kh you would have at least 2 congregations, you'd find people from all three cong. in one establishment. Hm. Interestingly, there weren't that many people there, jw's included. Unless it was a co visit.
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STEM CELL RESEARCH & THE WTS
by Mary ini read a very interesting article on stem cell research and the possibility of it being used to cure cancer, but you'd be using your own blood.
it part, it says:
cord blood is easily defined as blood retrieved from the umbilical cord after the birth of the child.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
The general attitude of the GB for Stem Cell research is no. There was an Awake article about it about 2 or 3 years ago. Don't remember what it said. I'll try to find it if you want Mary.
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What's The Biggest Lie The Witnesses Tell?
by minimus inis it about the blood issue?
about the fallability of the governing body?
that they really love one another??
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BlackSwan of Memphis
What about saying to yourself and everyone who asks why you do not celebrate whatever holiday, ?I Choose not to do such and such?. Ha. As if there were ever a choice to begin with. Or ?I Choose not to get involved with the presidential elections? All the choices you really believe you?re free to make. Ha.
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Fuming, Angry, seething, seeing RED!!!!!!!!!!
by Gill inmy parents went to the assembly this weekend.
they were telling me about disciplining children... the speaker was saying how all babies are born selfish and demanding for their own needs and not anyone elses.
the jist of the talk being about discipline, and training children ...ie taking them out for a good beating.. well, i don't know if any of you have ever 'just seen red!
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BlackSwan of Memphis
I remember a couple years ago when I was pretty active and regular, maybe more like 3 or 4 years, anyhow....
I was in the mother's room trying to get my little one to sleep and I heard a friend of mine come in the bathroom with her screaming child she said something to him quietly and I couldn't hear her, then it came....
She is a little bit on the heavier side, very strong girl and I swear to you I could literally hear the spanking before her hand touched his butt. I could hear the swish of her arm as it came down multiple times on this kids butt. I know you probably think I am exaggerating, but I'm not. I have never before been so freaked out. I went home that night in tears. I have never let that go. BTW no offense to anyone who "is little bit on the heavier side", I'm no lightweight myself.
Then about 2 years ago, I told my mom how a really nice brother in our hall had chosen Not to spank his kids at the kingdom hall. When she heard this,she said, "well bringing a paddle to the hall always worked for your sister. Look at her kids now." (They are all very obedient jw's) I don't remember my reply.
This is a topic that has bothered me to no end.
blackswan
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Well....the wife and I are going back to the Kingdom Hall.
by jimbob inbefore i explain why, i've never really given anyone a background on myself, even though i've been a member here for 2 1/2 years.
so i'll try and make this quick.. i was raised a jw my whole life.
i know many jw's in the seattle area and eastside.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
I am so sorry that you lost someone you care so much about.
I have to say when I first saw the thread, I thought you meant you were going Back... as in Going Back to the Organization. Whew.
Many thoughts are with you and your wife this weekend. It always hurts when someone you care about passes.
much love
blackswan
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March KM also gives instructions to POs
by stillajwexelder inalso in the march km apart from the big front page article about awake being monthly - is a rebuke to pos to distribute kms as soon as they arrive.
i am glad about this - far too many pos are control freaks and distribute kms at last possible minute - it is almost as if they are saying - i am better than you because i get my km about 3 weeks before you do.
anyway we got our march kms last night and they were distributed immediately
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BlackSwan of Memphis
Ok, wait....
What kingdom hall song was taken from a Disney song?
And ok, I can kinda see George Benson, but Celine Dion?
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no hockey this year
by BlackSwan of Memphis in.
well, i guess it's official... no hockey whatsoever this year.. not that some 30 games was gonna make one hec of a season but it was something.. all over a matter of $6 mil.
sheesh.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
Well, I guess it's official... No hockey whatsoever this year.
Not that some 30 games was gonna make one hec of a season but it was something.
All over a matter of $6 mil. Sheesh.
